The Rediff Interview/Nawaz Sharief

'This is the time to learn from past mistakes. Can you tell me what we have gained in the past fifty years?'

At the SAARC convention the Indian prime minister talked about co-operation and trade within the SAARC framework. What role will Pakistan play in this?

We want to do this within the SAARC charter and through bilateral talks. We will lose our dependence on many if we increase trade with each other. This will provide employment opportunities to many people. But we have to progress on other fronts as well. I have mentioned Kashmir, I have also asked Mr Gujral to return his troops from Kashmir to create proper atmosphere for these talks.

The greatest problems regarding Kashmir is that troops cannot recede as long terrorism exists there.

There are many things said that are in no way related to reality. We should therefore, be realistic. If we are really keen about solving problems then this is not the time to complain. This is the time to learn from past mistakes and realise our gains and losses. Can you tell me what we have gained in the past fifty years? We have fought wars and spent heavily on defense.

This does not allow us to pay attention to other priorities. We are unable to spend as much on our social sector. So it is time to take into account where we have gained or lost. We should seriously think about living like good neighbours.

Are you going to submit some proposal about slashing this expenditure during bilateral talks?

There are many suggestions which will come by gradually when we start discussions with each other. But this will happen only when we make some progress, when we are more confidence and are closer to each other. I believe that this will be one of the issues we shall be able to discuss.

But this expenditure should be curtailed.

The only way is to curtail it on both sides through mutual agreement.

Even as the talks continue pertaining to different issues is it not possible to keep everything aside and try to improve relations?

We do want progress on all the fronts. But if we progress on all other fronts except Kashmir, that also is not correct. I think Gujralsaheb also has certain limitations which I understand. I too am in a similar situation. If we really want to resolve the issue and resolve it at all cost, then there is no reason why it should not be solved.

There is a constant allegation from India that Pakistan promotes terrorism here --formerly it was in Punjab now in Kashmir. If this feeling persists it will hinder the improvement of relationships.

Our people also blame India for such things. The practice has been to blame Pakistan whenever anything goes wrong in India. I want to change it. I wish to change these old practices and start a fresh approach. Is it not possible?

What do you have to say about this allegation? Are they false?

No, it is because of these allegations that we have decided to sit and talk. I had talked about it to Gujralsaheb. Sometimes our diplomats are beaten up in Delhi. Such things have happened here also. Why don't we behave with each other in a more civilised fashion? The world has come out of the rut that we are still wallowing in. All these are stumbling stones and should be removed.

The ISI in the bugbear in India just as RAW must be in Pakistan. How do we reduce this suspicion? Whether it is the Bombay blasts or the Kashmir issue for which Pakistan is blamed or the Mohajir movement for which India is blamed, tension mounts because of this suspicion. How can it be averted?

The ISI and RAW will also have the opportunity to discuss matters with each other when talks start at the top level. Then they will be able to resolve their problems on their own, and such things will not happen in future.

You had given a statement that if Azad Kashmir starts agitating then Pakistan would encounter it with an atom bomb. Do you have the atom bomb ready?

(Laughs) You were asking such good questions. How come you are asking this?

Translated by Sudershna Dwivedi

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